Welcome to the first episode of the SatoSHE Show!
SatoSHE is the first all-female Bitcoin-only show, hosted by Molly Spiers, Mir Liponi, and Lina Seiche. On this show, we give you our unsolicited views on the latest in Bitcoin as it evolves into the backbone of a new financial system. We chat about the news that moves the industry, the questions that keep us busy, and the people that change the world, and we may also invite other bitcoiners over for a cup of tea and a casual chat every now and then.
In this first episode, we chat about why we thought the world needed another podcast, why we went with "SatoSHE," and we test the waters with our first Bitcoin-specific conversation on Bitcoin advertising. Bitcoin ads are a contentious topic, and many Bitcoin companies have stories to tell about their struggles to get Bitcoin-related ads approved on social media platforms and real-life billboards. Yet some altcoins seem to have cracked the code of getting ads approved.
What's going on with that, and does Bitcoin even need advertising?
Watch the full episode below or listen on Anchor!
We're a podcast, we talk about Bitcoin, and we're all girls. What else do you want?
Molly Spiers (0:10):
What's up guys! Welcome to the first ever episode of The SatoSHE show sponsored by SatoSHE design and CoinCorner. I'm Molly and I'm joined today by my beautiful co-hosts, Lina and Mir. Hello Wayfields.
Lina Seiche (0:22):
We are fine.
Molly Spiers (0:23):
Hi. In this episode, we will be introducing ourselves, the show and we also have a couple of Bitcoin topics to talk about. So let's get to it. Right guys, we're going to introduce ourselves, so Lina, do you want to go first? Who are you? What do you do?
Lina Seiche (0:42):
I'm Lina, I am the managing director of the BTC times, the best Bitcoin news site, and now I'm part of the best Bitcoin podcast.
Molly Spiers (0:55):
Cool. So how did you discover Bitcoin?
Lina Seiche (1:00):
That's not a very great story, actually.
Molly Spiers (1:05):
Lina Seiche (1:07):
All right. Um, I discovered Bitcoin through shit coins. I'm gonna get canceled.
Molly Spiers (1:16):
It's okay, I think we've all had experience with shit coins over the years, but as long as you've learned, and, you know, as long as you're a full-fledged Bitcoiner now that's all that matters.
Lina Seiche (1:26):
Oh, yeah, I'm not going back there. I'm a child of the 2017 generation, so I joined early during that hype season. And the first half year or so that I was in space, I had nothing to do with Bitcoin because I came into the space through shit coins. And you know, shit coiners don't like to talk about Bitcoin. So really, the first time that I would hear about Bitcoin was when I was at a meetup, and somebody would do a presentation and say, so you've heard about Bitcoin? And Bitcoin is like this old dinosaur tech, and here I have this new coin that does all these things better than Bitcoin. That was kind of the first time I heard about Bitcoin, and it took me about a year and a half to realize that shit coins are not the answer. They're not solving anything. And that there's bigger things to worry about, and that Bitcoin fixes them. So my journey is not very glorious, but now I'm here. Your stories are way better.
Molly Spiers (2:43):
Well then Mir do you want to tell us, well, first of all, who you are, what you do, and how did you get into Bitcoin?
Mir Liponi (2:49):
Wow. That's a tough question. I’m Italian, it is impossible to hear, but I'm Italian, I know. And I basically shit posts on Twitter about Bitcoin and Cypherpunks ideals, privacy and all these amazing, important stuff all day long. But from time to time, I do, I mean important stuff too just like, helping the BHB Network, helping the Milan Bitcoin Meetup. And I've been around for some years. And yeah, I do other stuff, too. I'm a vocal coach. And I've been a vocal coach, even before Bitcoin and I'm also a communication consultant as you can hear from my perfect speaking, yes. And yes, I love Italian food and I have a very small project on Instagram about polymath and multipotentiality because I love random topics. And I love to discover anything and I'm a very curious person. Yes, I’m also, that's very important, the mom of a ScamBot, which is a very important bot on Twitter.
Molly Spiers (4:10):
I never knew that, really?
Mir Liponi (4:12)
Molly Spiers (4:14):
Wow. That’s cool.
Mir Liponi (4:16):
Molly Spiers (4:18)
So how did you discover Bitcoin, Mir?
Mir Liponi (4:21):
Well, that's been two phases of love because the first time I heard about Bitcoin, I kinda loved the idea. But, yeah, I told Giacomo, you have to do some stuff with that because I was doing my PhD. So I was very busy, and please, Giacomo, quit your job and do something with this Bitcoin because it is perfect for you. I mean, it is politics, it is technology, it is ethics, it is anything you love. And yeah, so basically continued with my life and then at some point I started to go to the meetups, and I clearly remember one moment in New York. I was there for my PhD research and I met many people talking about Bitcoin, the lightning network, it was at an early stage. And I didn't understand a word of that. And not only because of the technology, but also because I didn't speak English at the time, but I was fascinated by the passion and the few things I understood at the time. And I decided I want to be part of that. That's amazing. And actually, my story was all about Bitcoin maximalism from the beginning, but I was only lucky because I met the right people just after I decided to be involved in Bitcoin. So yes, I have to say thanks to all the people that are helping me learn about Bitcoin. And they had a lot of patience.
Lina Seiche (6:02):
Wait, so you are the reason Giacamo is a Bitcoiner?
Mir Liponi (6:05):
Well, he found Bitcoin by himself, but actually, I'm the reason why he decided to quit his previous job as a consultant. Yes.
Lina Seiche (6:18):
Mir Liponi (6:20):
Well, it was clear to me that it was perfect for him and the rest is history. But the funny thing is, I wasn't convinced for myself, because I was doing other stuff, and I wanted to focus on them. And for that Bitcoin was for people just like Giacomo, and now I think that Bitcoin is for normal people like me.
Molly Spiers (6:47)
Bitcoin is for everyone.
Mir Liponi (6:48):
Yeah, absolutely. Except for one.
Molly Spiers (6:55):
Now, that's really cool. So you've never gone down the road of shit coins?
Mir Liponi (6:59):
No, I've been very lucky because I asked many questions at the beginning because of course, I didn't understand all these maximalism all around Bitcoin. And I was like maybe you are too exaggerated, and then I came to the conclusion that Bitcoin is just common sense. And it is better to focus on Bitcoin, which is better for any stuff. And it is the best by design and for its price over time, and so many, many, many other things. But it took me some time but in the meanwhile, I trusted my sources, and then I verified by myself. What about you, Molly?
Molly Spiers (7:43):
What about me? Okay, wow. So I'm trying to think where my story begins. My story begins, when. So at the moment, I'm Head of Marketing and Communications at CoinCorner. Prior to this, I was in a marketing role for a local hospitality company, so I like hotels and events. I think I was just looking for something a bit different. I was kind of, I'd been in that role for a year and a half straight from uni into that role. And as much as I love local marketing, I was just, it gets a bit stale. So I put the feelers out to have a little look to see what other marketing roles were available. And so this was 2014 and CoinCorner, were advertising a marketing role, and at this point, the company was only like 6 months old. I think. No, even a couple of months old, sorry, because I joined when they were six months old. So I went for the interview. Had no idea what Bitcoin was, had never ever heard of it, and especially back in 2014 there was, I mean, you struggle to, there was no information really. You don't have all the resources and all the information that's available these days about Bitcoin. So I went to the interview, and was just straight up honest. And I was like, guys, I've never heard of Bitcoin before, but it is from what I've read, which is very little, I was like, it sounds really cool. But I'm very passionate about marketing and what you guys are trying to achieve, I'm down for that. So yeah, then I got offered the job. Had to wait a little bit because they were still trying to get it up and going. So I joined the company after six months, and then the rest is history. I'm still here six years later.
Molly Spiers (9:54):
I don’t feel like an OG some of the time there. I don't know. I don't know if you both feel the same but Bitcoin, the industry changes so fast, And every day, there's new products, services, you know, developments, and a lot of the time I said, I have no idea what's going on. I know Bitcoin and that's that. But when you hear, I don't know, I'm not a techie. So things like taproot you know, all that stuff I hear the guys at work talking about and I kind of wish I could understand these things. But even now, like for me six years, six and a half years in I'm still learning every single day.
Lina Seiche (10:37)
Yeah, maybe a disclaimer at this point. If you're watching this to get technical insight into the functionalities of Bitcoin, I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but you're not getting it from me. I'm not sure about you, girls.
Molly Spiers (10:53):
No, absolutely, not.
Mir Liponi (6:59):
No, I can pretend to understand stuff. I've been doing this since here. But actually, I can understand that those are important topics, and who are the people we're talking about, the topic, and they are building stuff great for Bitcoin, yes that's my understanding.
Molly Spiers (11:15):
Okay, if we ever decide to do a topic on that, like the technical stuff, we'll bring someone in. They can explain it to us. Cool, I guess that kind of leads us on to I want to ask you girls, because the SatoSHE show was you girls came up with the idea and then invited me to be a host, which I'm so grateful for. But yeah, just explain. What is SatoSHE? Like, what, what do we expect to achieve from it?
Lina Seiche (11:47):
So last year, I was helping out the magical crypto podcast with Charlie Lee with Panda Samson. Fluffy Pony. So I was helping out at that podcast, it was going really well. Unfortunately, they didn't have time to keep it up. So they ended the show and after they recorded their last episode, Samson told me he was thinking of doing a new podcast, he was just not sure yet who to do it with. So I said, “Why not with me? You know, we could do it together.”, he said, “Nah, I don’t want to do it with you.” So I thought, okay, then I'll do my own. So I was thinking about a good way to do it, and I realized there's not a lot of female podcasts that focus only on Bitcoin. In fact, I couldn't find any. If I'm wrong, please tell me. But so I thought, Okay, why not? Why not do that? You know, and I was certainly not going to do it alone, because I don't have that much experience doing it. So I reached out to Mir and Mir was totally down. And then we reached out to you, Molly, and you were totally down and then things happened. I could tell you about the name, SatoSHE. SatoSHE. How do we pronounce it? I don't know. We should probably decide that. SatoSHE.
Molly Spiers (13:25):
SatoSHE. Sounds good.
Lina Seiche (13:26):
Mir Liponi (13:27):
Well, we can go for SatoSHE, which sounds very Italian.
Molly Spiers (13:31):
That is very Italian.
Lina Seiche (13:32):
Mir Liponi (13:35):
Molly Spiers (13:36):
With the hand. With the hand.
Lina Seiche (13:43):
Yeah, I was thinking of a name. Again, I was talking to Samson about it. And he said something about you know, why not call it SatoSHE is a girl or something like that. And I thought oh, SatoSHE.
Molly Spiers (13:57):
Honestly, when you guys showed me the name and the branding. I was like, that's amazing. I think it is clever.
Mir Liponi (14:04):
Yeah. super short, and you understand what we are going to do. Yeah, I love it.
Lina Seiche (14:11):
What are we going to do? We have podcasts. We talk about Bitcoin. We are all girls.
Mir Liponi (14:16):
Yeah, that's everything we need in the end because we all share...
Lina Seiche (14:20):
What else do you want?
Mir Liponi (14:25):
We share all the love for Bitcoin, and we love to chat about it. We love to talk about some more important topics around Bitcoin. And I think that that's all we need at this point, and I really like the idea that the show will change and grow with people. I mean, the audience will tell us a little bit of our week and we can move things on and also I like the idea of an all female podcast because I think it is interesting that we can give a female perspective on the topic. It's probably the first time. So let's see what happens.
Lina Seiche (15:11):
It might be.
Mir Liponi (15:12):
Lina Seiche (15:13):
A little less toxic than. No actually, I don't know. Maybe not.
Molly Spiers (15:18):
No, we're not that toxic. I don't think so.
Mir Liponi (15:22):
Well, yeah. I mean, it really depends on what the toxicity means. I mean, if toxicity means that we are tough on the important stuff, I think I'm toxic. But if you think that toxicity means that you are a horrible person, I don't think we are. Really, it really depends. Okay, I think that if we're telling ourselves that we are toxic, it works. If it is from outside, sometimes it is just, it is not a compliment really depends. But I'm okay with being toxic, if needed.
Lina Seiche (16:07):
Molly Spiers (16:12):
Yeah, one of the things that I just wanted to mention is that, like we obviously said the audience will help us drive this podcast. So if anyone has suggestions, we're looking to bring on guests in the future. So we always welcome guest suggestions, topic suggestions, anything like that, we are open to everything.
Lina Seiche (16:32):
So in terms of what we're going to be providing, or the content that we're going to be putting out there. I think we will be, you know, a few things as Molly mentioned, we might want to have guests on, but we also just want to talk about what's happening, you know, give our own view of things. Maybe the female perspective can be useful. Also, because all three of us have a marketing background, I think that is primarily the view that you're going to get from us. So if that's something that you are interested in, then you know, you are very welcome to hang around. If not, then please still hang around. Because we need viewers.
Molly Spiers (17:17):
It's bad for you. It's bad for you.
Mir Liponi (17:20):
It's going to be an Italian course for you if you are not going to watch, endorse and help us. Yeah, that's a very bad course. Yeah.
Lina Seiche (17:30):
You better stay.
Mir Liponi (17:31):
You better stay.
Lina Seiche (17:32):
Mir’s eyes just now.
Molly Spiers (17:34):
Yeah, I feel like I need to stay.
Lina Seiche (17:39):
I am scared to leave now.
Molly Spiers (17:45):
Cool, then on. So from that, then the marketing side. Actually one of the topics that I wanted to raise today and kind of get your girl's opinion on it was Bitcoin marketing in general. So this week for me at work has been a nightmare. I don't know if you guys have seen but the FSA, which is the Financial can't remember what the C is but Authority.
Lina Seiche (18:13):
Financial Conduct Authority.
Molly Spiers (18:16):
Girl, even you know, I was thinking I don’t know they don’t want to go down that road, the Financial Conduct Authority in the UK, they are launching an 11 million pound campaign, basically warning of crypto risks. That's not helpful. Because here in the UK, I have more than enough barriers when it comes to trying to market Bitcoin products and services and this is not a new thing. This has been my entire time at CoinCorner. I don't know if you girls remember. But back in 2018, Google Ads was banned. There was a blanket ban on crypto advertising for Google Ads, which impacted us heavily because we used to get a lot of new customers from Google Ads. And I know that they are reintroducing that in Japan. I think Japan has allowed it back. And I think the US is next but there's no, I haven't heard anything about the UK. And yeah, like we've had advertising pulled from transport advertising in the UK a couple years ago, the day before it was supposed to go live. And I had an advert turned down this week for radio advertising because the ASA, which is the Advertising Standards Agency in the UK, is also cracking down on crypto advertising. And yeah, another one which I've not come out yet and said anything about -- the Reddit. Reddit banned us as well. Reddit refused us advertising this week. Unless we are willing to spend a lot of money which we don't have.
Lina Seiche (19:55):
They don’t want it. They don't want your money.
Molly Spiers (19:57):
They do want my money, but they were not a lot of money. So they will exit. I can't remember what the actual wording was, but basically, cryptocurrency advertising falls under financial services. But you can only advertise on Reddit if you're willing to spend X amount in a certain time period. And I don't have that marketing budget to do so. Unfortunately, the companies that do have that marketing budget to do so are typically ICOs and scams, which then I don't know if you girls feel the same, but it just leads back into this cycle of barriers to crypto advertising because of these companies. But these companies are the ones that can afford to spend the money, which then gives the bad reputation to Bitcoin marketing in general, and for legitimate businesses like us at CoinCorner and I'm sure other businesses around the world. So, that’s my little vent.
Lina Seiche (21:01):
The Financial Conduct Authority, right. So what they did is they say, we don't want any more misleading crypto advertising, right? So there was this. I’d be interested to know what ad you were gonna submit. But there was this Luno ad, right in the subway, or whatever? I forgot what exactly it said, but something like if you're seeing Bitcoin in the subway, it is time to buy and they said, that's misleading, because it doesn't highlight the risk that comes from it. So Molly actually shared a Financial Times article with us, prior to the podcast I read it, I found it very interesting. There's a section here that says the Financial Conduct Authority has issued warnings that consumers buying popular crypto products should be prepared to lose all their money. But those have failed to filter through to most consumers. It is great, because, you know, if the Financial Conduct Authority is telling me to do something, I will definitely listen to that. But the point being, there is a big focus on misleading, right? So it doesn't want misleading advertising. So I'm wondering what misleading means, right? For example, you had in London, just recently, you had these HEX advertisements on taxis. Right. Now, if you saw that, but they painted the taxis. They said something like up 10,000% in x days, or HEX is up 10,000% since day x or whatever. So I'm wondering, is that misleading? Because if it actually, if they pumped it that hard, then it is factually correct. So is it misleading to put that on a car? Would it be misleading to put up a Bitcoin ad tomorrow saying Bitcoin is up 10x since 2020 because that's true.
Molly Spiers (23:00):
It's true. It is a fact.
Lina Seiche (23:05):
Are you able to share what ad CoinCorner was going to put up?
Molly Spiers (23:09):
Oh, so this, are you talking about the transport advertising?
LIna Seiche (23:13):
Molly Spiers (23:14):
Yeah. So this was actually, this wasn't recent. This was in 2018. We were going to put up on the trains in the UK. Inside the carriages, we had a campaign called “Be more Brenda”, and our sort of approach behind it was based on an actual customer of ours who was elderly, and was very switched on. And our approach was like, if she can do it, anyone can do it. Like Bitcoin is easy. It is not as difficult as everybody thinks it is. So we had all the artwork done, we had it all printed, and we were working with a third party advertising agency. And, yeah, the day before it was due to go on, I can't even remember how many, a lot of trains. They pulled it because they said it, I can't even remember the wording, whether it was misleading or whether it was something else at the time. But then we went and put those posters up on the undergrounds in London, because it was a different provider, and they were fine with it. So we had these big like, don’t know what size, huge, huge posters. Be more Brenda they were bright orange. They were amazing. They actually got a lot of people talking about them, because they were so they stood out. They were incredible. But yeah, that also came with a lot of criticism from people, against you know. Here in the UK, I don't know if it is the same way with you guys, but anything that you put out in terms of advertising you can't put out anything that is deemed investment advice. So these ads that you're talking about with Luno, where it says, “If you're seeing this ad, it is time to buy”, I saw those ads, and I was like, that's investment advice. And how it got through and approved, I have no idea, but the long term damage that has done to other companies in the space as a result of that is a little bit frustrating.
Lina Seiche (25:24):
You think that like HEX or just, you know, obviously a scam. And now I'm going to get, you know, probably shitstorm from shitcoiners, but do you think they were able to put up that ad because they didn't put a Call To Action? They just put this: “Oh, we have so many percent since this day.”, and then you know, think the rest, you know.
Molly Spiers (25:44):
Yeah, I mean, potentially, I mean, so whenever we do advertising here, in the UK, you have to put the disclaimers in the bottom, you know, like for so obviously we don't advertise HEX or anything like that, any shit coins. But with Bitcoin, we always have to have a disclaimer in the button, the regulatory stuff that says, you know, the price of bitcoin can go up and down risks involved, blah, blah, blah. I can't remember whether those disclaimers were on that HEX ad. And yeah, there's so many different parties involved with the advertising. Like I said before, you've got the ASA, which is the Advertising Standards Agency who were like the governing body for these adverts. But they didn't get I don't think they get involved until something was brought to their attention like the Luno ads. I don't know if the HEX ads have been brought to their attention. So sort of underneath them. There's these independent advertising agencies that are working with these companies. And if they deemed it, fine, then it goes out. So clearly, whoever HEX were working with deemed it factually incorrect and you know, not misleading. Yeah. And it is difficult.
Lina Seiche (26:57):
Yeah. What I found interesting is, so I looked into this topic a bit further. There's a BBC article on the same topic, which says the ASA, so that Advertising something something okay. The watchdog said it says here. The watchdog said the simplicity of the it is time to buy statement gave the impression that Bitcoin investment was straightforward and accessible. We understood, and this is a quote from the ASA, we understood that Bitcoin investment was complex, volatile and could expose investors to losses, that's still contrast to the ad. So the reason they're giving is not that it is misleading. The reason they're giving is you are making it seem like it is easy to buy bitcoin, but actually, it is really hard. So that’s the reason they gave.
Molly Spiers (27:50):
Yeah, like I honestly don't think anybody really knows like outside of the companies that are advertising. I don't think that these advertising agencies know what the rules are. It varies so much.
Lina Seiche (28:07):
I think anybody knows. No, I mean, no, you're trying to get an ad approved, and it is not working out for you. So I'm wondering, you know, if there was an ad saying Bitcoin is up 10x, since 2020, and you know, we wanted to put it on a bus in London, would it get approved? Or would they say, nah, this is misleading, even though it is a factual statement? Like, is the problem having the Bitcoin logo on there because they don't want to see Bitcoin? Or is it actually as they say, they just don't want you to think, want you to make people think that it is the guaranteed returns or whatever?
Mir Liponi (28:48):
It seems that. I’m sorry.
Molly Spiers (28:51):
No, go on, Mir.
Mir Liponi (28:53):
No, the only thing I want to add, it is kind of trivial, but this is what happens when everything is centralized, and there are some associations and governments behind it because they can control what you can do and you feel protected. But actually, in the end, we cannot even predict what they are going to do. Because at the beginning Bitcoin was something unknown, so it is better to stop consumers and now Bitcoin is against something and now Bitcoin is risky and in the future will be. We don't know. The only thing we know is that it will always be tricky because it is not completely in our power, but we have to deal with it if we want to, of course, have Bitcoin be focused businesses.
Molly Spiers (29:49):
I think I don't know how you feel about this Lina, but because I know that your media publication is a Bitcoin publication, but media in general, are not Bitcoin friendly. I think that a lot of the stuff that comes out, unfortunately, is quite weird, quite heavily, quite negatively towards Bitcoin. So all this, you know, these comments around advertising and, you know, try to highlight these crypto risks. I feel like there's just so much mixed messaging, because you have, you know, companies like ourselves trying to advertise Bitcoin in a positive way. But then at the same time, you have these media publications coming out mainstream media, sorry, publications coming out, very kind of like negative stories around Bitcoin, and it just feels like a constant battle with the Bitcoin industry as a whole versus the world, essentially.
Lina Seiche (30:00):
There is a strong tendency towards highlighting the criticism of Bitcoin as opposed to the praise, because praise of Bitcoin, in whatever shape or form is often regarded as, as you said, investment advice. When it comes to media coverage, especially mainstream media, I think the problem they have is there's not enough Bitcoin expertise out there. It is part of the problem. So there are not a lot of people who understand Bitcoin, you know. Among those people, there's not a lot of people that can write. And then among those people who understand Bitcoin and can write, there's not a lot of people that can write in a journalistic way. And among those people that understand Bitcoin, can write and can write as a journalist it is not a lot of people that actually work in that profession. You see where I'm going with this, right?
Mir Liponi (31:44):
Lina Seiche (31:45):
People that do, they tend to work, maybe they work at, you know, CoinDesk, Cointelegraph, or other crypto publications, or they're freelancers, or whatever. Few of them are employed by mainstream media outlets. And that the result or the consequence of that, is that these mainstream media often have, they realized, oh wait, people are talking about Bitcoin, so we have to cover it too. So they give the topic or they assign a Bitcoin story to the closest person. Like the person closest to what they think can write about it, for example, a person usually covering stocks or covering finance markets, or economics. And these people will usually come from a different background, and you can't expect them to, you know, within like, what's the turnaround time, like 12, 24 or 48 hours to learn about Bitcoin. So what they will do very often is they will Google it, and they will see a past article that's not very well informed, and then they will say “Oh, bitcoins, carbon footprint is so high”. Okay. Well, you know, we all care about climate change right now. So this is a great thing to pick up and this is going to get us the clicks. So it is like a vicious cycle of misinformation that gets out there. And I don't want to, you know, demonize every single journalist out there. There's some really good journalists out there. But there's a lack of understanding. And unfortunately, you know, it still gets out there. And then you have to deal with it. And also, the effect of that, because, like the government and the Financial Conduct Authority, the people that work there, they also read that stuff, and then they think Bitcoin is dead, so let's put up this new regulation that bans Bitcoin ads.
Mir Liponi (33:46):
Yeah. And can I be a little bit toxic?
Lina Seiche (33:50):
Mir Liponi (33:51):
I agree with everything you said Lina, but probably it was more for them. First year of Bitcoin, I see the lack of understanding for them, in most cases. Actually, it is either you are kinda ignorant, because there is so much stuff out there, and or you are in some way guilty because it happened to me. During some interviews, I spent a lot of time speaking about Bitcoin and given all the resources to watch and they asked me questions, for example, last time about Bitcoin and energy consumption, blah, blah, blah, blah. Bitcoin is bad for energy, and I link it and explain everything quite efficiently because it was in Italian. And in the end, the article was nothing about what I was talking about. In my harsh words, they didn't do the research. I know sometimes it is a matter of time, you don't have time. But actually, you had everything. If you didn't want to go to the resources, you have the time to listen to my answer because it was just like explaining it to, as I would explain to my mama probably. And so sometimes there is an agenda, and if they decide to go with that agenda nothing will change their minds.
Lina Seiche (35:33):
And yeah, unfortunately. It happens a lot.
Molly Spiers (35:37):
That's a problem and the unfortunate negative stories about Bitcoin are the ones that get the clicks. And then the other ones, obviously, the more clicks the more words, yeah. Nobody wants to read a story about how great Bitcoin is, do they? They want to hear about how it is destroying the world. And, you know.
Lina Seiche (35:55):
Well, do you want to read about taproot? Like, oh, well, you maybe do, but imagine you are. That’s a bad example. Alright, imagine your friends who are not Bitcoiners, imagine they see an article about how taproot improves Bitcoin’s privacy, or efficiency or, you know, even lightning network use cases, Imagine they see that headline, they are not going to click on it. Now they like,
Mir Liponi (36:23):
They prefer being salty. I told you so, that Bitcoin was a scam, it is dangerous or whatever you are right click baits are just in this direction. And call me, I mean, I'm naive, but I can see a future when the titles will change and will show all the amazing things that Bitcoin will do, or otherwise, they're going to be more independent publications and silver rain publications. I don't know, just dreaming.
Lina Seiche (36:55):
There's this thing that I was never aware of when you're growing up in Germany, until I started traveling and met people from different countries. I saw that in some countries, and especially in the US, you have media outlets that are clearly leading towards a political direction or party or whatnot. And there is a very clear bias. If you see for example, you want to read news about Trump. If you go to Fox News, if you go to CNN, you'll see the same news but packaged very differently. Yeah, so for me, the more I saw that the more I realized, wait so if you read an article, you can't just take it at face value you have to read you know other articles on the same topic or you go to Twitter, you know, to then form your own opinion on you know, some well, or better informed grounds. But then can we ask that of people that want to learn about Bitcoin? Probably not.
Molly Spiers (37:59):
Probably not actually. Because if they do go to Twitter, they're just gonna see shitposting and memes on me.
Lina Seiche (38:05):
I have a question. Do you think we need Bitcoin banner ads on, you know, buses and taxis and billboards? And maybe even you know, Facebook and Twitter? Do we need these banner ads? Or are they not necessary? Will Bitcoin get to the end game? Whatever you may think that is, without them as well? Or will it accelerate it? Or is it actually even bad for Bitcoin?
Molly Spiers (38:36):
Mir, do you have any thoughts on that?
Mir Liponi (38:39):
You asked for too many photos that I tried to condense. So let's start with saying that I tolerate marketing actually because I'm the kind of person that I see marketing and communication as two very different things. And at the same time, I think it is very important to market stuff with ethics and they are very important for businesses. Since Bitcoin is not a business, Bitcoin is just what Bitcoin is. Bitcoin is a strange creator on the internet, and it is a currency. I don't know, I still don't know. But see, many people are convinced that Bitcoin doesn't need any marketing, because Bitcoin is just it is and it will eventually win without our output in any way. But at the same time, I think that if we can help Bitcoin, there is a great way to do that. So, in the end, I tolerate and try to help Bitcoin in many ways, and I think that Bitcoin companies should do what they do. They are doing business, so advertising is a very important part of that, otherwise, we won’t know that their services exist and also they are reaching potential new clients, potential new people. If we're talking about Bitcoin all the time, on the same platform it is not that useful. There are some problems of course, because we see ii is kind of exposing too much the topics about I think it's the impact could be positive in the end. At the same time I think that I mean, there are positive ways in which we can do marketing for Bitcoin. I mean, the problem is also that not only that we associate Bitcoin and marketing in a bad way, because, I mean, we think Bitcoin doesn't need any marketing. But I do think that sometimes something is rooted in its historical roots because, for example, all the people who were doing marketing, especially in the ICOs season, were just like people, they had only marketing, they didn't have anything else. And basically, in the most positive scenario we're trying to sell you nothing. In the worst, they are proclaiming it fraud. So, with time we associated marketing with a bad thing, because I mean, Bitcoin doesn't need marketing, the others are doing marketing. So marketing is bad. But in hand, it's not so easy, but the steel nowadays, many people are just seeing marketing as bad stuff for Bitcoin internally because all these people pumped up, or trying to sell their products, trying to sell the white papers, and the stupid coins or whatever. But I mean, we should tolerate marketing and use it for our goals. And one of the best ways, in my opinion, to do marketing for Bitcoin is through propaganda. What we are doing, the laser eyes for example, it's just like propaganda for Bitcoin, a good one. We are showing ourselves as stronger and entering the community, the message is clear. And those are great things and also bloggers are great for people internally and externally. I mean, it's a matter of rhetoric, you know. And rhetoric is important too. We are very focused as Bitcoiners to dialectics and argumentation and argumentation is very important, we should produce articles and talk and speak about very solid argumentation for our topic, especially now that Bitcoin has been attacked in so many different directions and for so different software. And we can argue against them with numbers, with solid arguments. But rhetoric is important too, especially if we are aware of what we are doing. And so in the end, I'm trying to tell you that our shitposting on Twitter or on other platforms is important for Bitcoin in the end, and at the same time, I think advertising outside this platform could be done in an ethical and important and Bitcoin-focused way.
Lina Seiche (43:45):
A lot of the marketing we see for Bitcoin is sort of defensive marketing, because there's a lot of anti-Bitcoin marketing, you know. It goes up to central banks, the European Central Bank attacked Bitcoin in its digital euro announcement, for whatever reason, they must feel very threatened. But because there's these authorities and people and organizations with large platforms attacking Bitcoin, a lot of the things we do, and a lot of the things many Bitcoiners, you see them doing, you see them going on TV to talk about it. I will call it defensive marketing, because it's dispelling FUD, you know.
Molly Spiers (44:26):
Lina Seiche (44:27):
That's a form of marketing too. You know, they go on TV to talk about Bitcoin. You can say, “No, Bitcoin doesn't need that”, but it certainly can't hurt because otherwise you wouldn't have this voice that would, you know, stand up against the misinformation that people maliciously, you can't, you have to say it as it is that people maliciously put out there.
Molly Spiers (44:50):
That's very true. I think it comes back to that saying that I can't remember the exact wording but, “First they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they join you”. I feel like we're very much in this fighting stage at the moment where we're just kind of that, you know, people are putting out FUD. And we're just having to go back and dispel. Dispel because if we don't the general public are going to hear what the central banks are saying, and they're going to take that as gospel, and then never look back to it again. So yeah, it just feels like a constant battle, you don’t think? Great. Well, that is the end of our first episode then girls.
Lina Seiche (45:32)
I hope there’s something useful there. I mean, Mir, for sure you said a lot of great stuff, I hope it's great to listen to as well or at least bearable.
Mir Liponi (45:43)
Well, I hope you guys understand what I said. But if you need any subtitles, let me know.
Lina Seiche (45:54):
It's a very romantic accent, Italian accent.
Mir Liponi (45:57)
I don't know, I don't hear it.
Lina Seiche (45:58):
It's one of the best you can have. Definitely better than the German accent.
Molly Spiers (46:00):
Mir Liponi (46:03):
Actually, I don't hear anything. Well, for the next episode I’ll just enroll into an English pronunciation course and see if something improves, but I don't know. Let me know if during the next episode something will be slightly better. Because we have problems with “h” and “th” sounds all the time. I can’t pronounce some sounds and who cares? People normally understand me or they fake to understand me.
Molly Spiers (46:39):
We love you for who you are, Mir . We love you.
Lina Seiche (46:42):
Yeah, I love whatever you said just now. I agree.
Mir Liponi (46:48):
Let's try it with some gestures next time. And I am really looking forward to the next episode. And I really hope that our audience will love it too.
Lina Seiche (46:59):
We'd love to know. Yeah, we would love to know how to optimize this podcast, you know. So if you have any suggestions like topics you want us to talk about, or the length of the podcast to or you know what guests we should have on here. Please let us know. We're just starting out but probably going to change this up a lot as we go.
Molly Spiers (47:21):
Yeah, I think we planned to do this for half an hour, but I think I've just checked the time when it's like a good hour. So there you go, a bonus long episode for the first one.
Lina Seiche (47:36):
I said a lot of useless stuff. You can cut that out.
Molly Spiers (47:39):
No, it was all good. But yeah, you can find us on Twitter. We have a Twitter account now for the podcast, which is the SatoSHE show just SatoSHE show.
Lina Seiche (47:46):
SatoSHE with an “e”.
Molly Spiers (47:48):
SatoSHE with an “e”.
Lina Seiche (47:49):
Molly Spiers (47:51):
I still love that and it's brilliant. And yeah and then we also have created a couple of Telegram groups as well so you can join us in there and we can talk about some of the topics we've you know talked about today.
Lina Seiche (48:05):
We're going to put it somewhere here.
Molly Spiers (48:06):
Yeah, we'll put it somewhere down in the show notes
Lina Seiche (48:09):
I’m giving the editor some work now.
Molly Spiers (48:14):
Okay cool. So thanks for joining us guys. Thank you so much.
Lina Seiche (48:20):
Don't forget to like and like and subscribe
Mir Liponi (48:32):
And if you want to do a donation since Bitcoin is dead, some salsa is always a good idea or just I mean, this T-shirt is, a tank top actually is very important and share the hashtag.
Lina Seiche (48:48):
Molly, can you share your important message too?
Molly Spiers (48:51):
Drink, drink Coca Cola. No, I don’t even like Coca Cola. I just thought the show was cool. Cool. Thank you very much.